I received the following comment on my previous post ("It is not good for man to be alone"), and I thought it warranted a response.
When evaluating the psukim you cross-reference, you must consider the language used in each one. The primary (though not the only) flaw in your logic is that you have somehow reasoned that "it is not good" is somehow an illustration of a more basic and fundamental principle than "abomination." Clearly, the Torah chooses to place an emphasis on the severity of the latter. If the former is so broad and fundamental, as you say, why would the same care not be given to its language?
Thank you for your comment. Let me clarify:
I was not implying that the verse "it is not good for man to be alone" negates the sexual prohibition in Leviticus. However, to define Judaism's view of homosexuality exclusively (or even primarily) by Leviticus is an error. While homosexuals cannot engage in a particular sexual act (anal sex), relationships are not defined by this act. The emotional and intellectual aspects are far more fundamental to the relationship than this sexual act. On these aspects, the Torah says, "It is not good for man to be alone."
10 comments:
I think this is a perfectly valid way to think, but I am not a religious fundamentalist.
I am Conservative, so I realize my non-Orthodox opinion might not carry much weight, but I really want to throw out my own opinion.
I think it's important to remember male/male intercourse happens all the time without any actual gay people being involved. Look at prison inmates, thugs, etc. Also, I have recieved many requests for sex acts from married straight men.
Even doctors and health officials are noticing this. Today's medical journals refer to MSM, an abbreviation for men who have sex with men. They use that somewhat clumsy label because a huge number of men who have sex with men do not self-identify as gay.
I think it's MORE than possible the Torah is referring to the type of male sodomy that involves degradation--I think it's likely, in fact.
(Cont.)
I don't think the Torah is referring to two men who are naturally gay in a committed, loving, healthy relationship.
If you haven't already seen it, I recommend the movie Trembling Before G-d, from director Sandi Simcha Dubowski.
Dubowski, himself a Conservative gay Jew, has created a documentary film about gay and lesbian Orthodox Jews trying to reconcile their sexuality with their faith.
You can read more about the movie and DVD here.
Trembling Before G-d was a horrible movie! it basically says if you want to remain an orthodox Jew and a homosexual, you're going to be living a very sad life, alone, constantly struggling with yourself. if you want to be bummed out then by all means, go watch it. but if its comfort you seek stay away. On the subject of Leviticus, I was raised orthodox, and when I realized that Im supposed to be killed because they way I choose to live my life is an abomination, I simply chucked it out of my life. I have no room in my life so something or someone telling me I am offensive to God or anyone else for that matter.
I'm not sure if the main challenge for gay frum guys is really the Torah. I'm a single gay frum guy too but this is just an opinion. There is a lot of interpretative latitude and if the will was there, poskim would find a way around it, no doubt. I think it might have more to do with the culture of orthodoxy. It's really hard to fit in if you are different in any way, and gay is just one of the ways one can be different. I have female friends who feel they don't fit because--although they are observant--they are smart but also unmarried (and not necessarily looking either). I'm kind of jaded, but it's quite clear to me that if you are married (heterosexually) and have kids, you fit, and anything else is at your own risk...
Trembling Before G-d definitely could have benefited from more examples of positive experiences.
I mean, I know some girls from New York who are part of a group called Orthodykes.
And then there's Rabbi Steven Greenberg's synagogue, which is comprised of frum gay Jews.
what synagogue is that?! i think you may be confused on this point... he davens at a mainstream nyc shul
Ah, you're right!! The gay synagogue I had read about is non-demoninational and not affiliated with Greenberg.
Personally, I wouldn't want to attend an all-gay shul. I never want to limit my friendships to one orientation.
I think it's a valid way of thinking too. The emotional aspect of the relationship is important, and something i crave. The physical aspect is important too though. I haven't crossed that line yet, but i expect to some day. But i guess that's just where i am. I don't think anything is going to stop me from doing something i'm not 'supposed' to be doing any more. I'm past that stage already.
Oh and i watched most of trembling with god. It didn't seem to solve or help out with any questions i had. Maybe the problem is just me.
jay
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